#their dynamic is very different from loumand

[sauronism]

armand would rather throw that old man into the trash can, than calling daniel "maitre". he would NEVER fucking do that.

[dwreader]

Can there be gender essentialism in a homosexual Relationship? I am not talking about loustat. But in general. Like can someone look at a couple and say something that can be termed as gender essentialism?

I am not making any sweeping generalizations about relationships of any kind. Not all heterosexual relationships fit strict gendered paradigms, not all homosexual relationships dispel these gender paradigm, nor am I in the business of talking about real life people and their relationships with their parents/partners/whatevs cause I don’t care that’s your business.

I’m talking specifically about the show’s version of Loustat which is explicitly framed a particular way and IS an anomaly because they are immortal vampires living in the mold of a 1910 Edwardian marriage which is only possible BECAUSE they are vampires and what the show is doing is analyzing heterosexual marriage dynamics (the only kind of marriage that existed in that time period) through the lens of an immortal homosexual pairing? It’s like there’s certain things you can get away with when it’s two immortal men vs human man and woman like Louis is reading marriage in a free society after his beating yk. The bougie interracial marriage with a child in a fancy mansion in the nicest part of town is made possible by their vampirism. If they were human this would not be their life so their dynamics would also not reflect that of an Edwardian marriage either. But the fact that they are protected by their immortality and Lestat’s power/money means they actually have the privilege of sliding right into the dominant marriage dynamic of the era and that comes with all the gendered imbalances and abuses of that family/household.

[uthseikoashx-goingmyway]

things in IWTV season 2 i'd lose my mind if it actually happens (or when. because some of those things will happen.). sorry for the mistakes btw

1. Claudeleine romantic relationship

Claudia finally having a vampire lover she can be herself with. the romantic & sexual tension. the heart to heart Louis and Claudia would have before changing Madeleine. the yearning. the tragic ending. the change of dynamics in the De Pointe du Lac family. the disruption of it all.

2. an exploration of Armand's relationship to religion, faith and God

specially in 2022. past religious crisis. how he articulates his vampire nature, his faith and his despair. lots of hints of TVA. God and art. religion, Armand and Louis. his religion (conversion from being christian to being muslim in this universe? if so, why?). "i serve, a God," would you mind to develop?

3. dramatic irony about Daniel's past and Devil's Minion

the rent boy. Daniel actually realising he had been a dick about that. "oh." after understanding the irony of it all. Armand talking in riddles and hinting at something Daniel is totally ignorant of. young Daniel's life and messy, loving and weird relationship with Armand. some activism. 2022 Daniel getting old, sicker and sicker. laughs. angst. tension. yearning. longing stares. petty remarks. revelations.

4. Loumand complex relationship

the love and the suffering. how they are both deeply attached to each other. how they show their care. the place Lestat holds right in the middle. how they deal with Claudia's death. what Louis really thinks about it. the tension. the yearning. how their relationship actually developed. the extent of Louis' memory alteration and how it plays a role into their dynamics. the after: how Armand helped Louis. messy divorce vibes. petty moves. to what extent their relationship is doomed. how one person can love several persons and in different ways, and how complex and delicate it is.

5. The Groan™

what is that. a metaphor for sexual arousal? Lestat scratching the walls? Rashid trapped? some clues. what the fuck.

6. Antoinette alive and kicking

and coming back right on time for the trial, because it would be 1) so fucking funny 2) utterly tragic, considering Claudia would be killed for killing nobody.

7. amazing outfits

amazing outfits

8. lots of french

i'm french

9. Claudia and Armand's relationship

Claudia being protective of Louis. Armand dealing with it. some sort of bond rivalry. both of them aware that something's wrong with the other. Armand and Claudia's similarities being acknowledged (age, killing a human they loved — Charlie, Ricardo — and complex situation regarding their maker), even a possibility for some kind of understanding and compassion (making the end more tragic). Armand seeing a some of Lestat in Claudia. Claudia seeing Armand's love for Lestat. a common love for theater and spectacular shows. that awful experience before Claudia's death.

10. Louis and memories

the photos he takes (where are they in 2022? will they clash with Louis' tale?). the metatextual dimension of themes such as: unreliable narration, memories and perspective, autofiction. Daniel calling out Louis' avoiding strategies. Louis calling out Daniel's rudeness and biais. how Louis really sees his relationship with Claudia? the gap between Louis' and Armand's recalling. a deeper exploration of his superimposed identities (black, queer, american man; in 1940, 1973, 2022). learning how to trust someone new after being abused. the rain metaphors. Louis saying the most poetic and heartbreaking thing you'll ever heard. his relationship to vampirism as he joins Armand's coven. grief and loss of a family member. hallucinations and how they are filmed / manifesting. guilt. loving Claudia and Armand. loving Lestat, still. etc.

tysm for coming to my tedtalk. it was very self-indulgent but very much pleasant. i won't be mad if it doesn't happen (obviously!), or not like i imagine. still, it's fun to imagine and put that here on tumblr. no shame on lestat, i just have no special things i'm waiting for about him, and will be very happy indeed to see him again. salut

[kandelia-mangrove]

Wishlist/Predictions for season 3 of interview with the vampire (add your wishes in the tags!) 

Lestat's perspective on the trial 

So much is different in the show and the motives for everyone involved in the trial are still SO unclear, I need more!

Lestat's version of what went down in Paris with Nicky and the start of the Theatre de Vampire (like I do think he and Armand fucked, but also way more stuff also happened for sure)

It would be really funny to get some Armand interjections in this portion of the tale

Lestat being haunted by Claudia's ghost in the present!! Also the Past!! He can never know peace!

Daniel and Lestat beefing

Lestat getting canceled (or truly any other social media reference) 

Louis Cameo in the present day (curious to see how they are going to keep him involved since I doubt they will spend a ton of time rehashing their relationship in New Orleans) 

I really need them to have very intense getting back together but also still kinda divorced energy

I’ll also accept cutaways from Lestat doing insane shit to Louis just chilling in Dubai, like reading a book or smth

But also I feel like Louis definitely funded the tour like no way Lestat was up to date on his finances, so Louis popping in as a producer/manager could be fun and cool too

Everyones reactions to the reveal that Marius is alive 

Like I NEED to see Armand fucking finding out Marius is alive because he is crashing set that day and has a catastrophic meltdown about the whole situation

Because the show implied he doesn’t know about it, with the whole “I have the blood of Akasha in me, he doesn’t know who that is” line. 

Also Need Daniel reacting to this information 

Also really want Louis’ reaction, because I genuinely think even during his Hating Armand Hours TM he would still hate Marius for what he did to him

Also, very unlikely, but I think should be explored: the Marius golden child Lestat racism/imperialism dynamics of it all especially with the AMC cast. Like… We gotta talk about it. 

Explicitly GNC, Nonbinary, or otherwise Trans Gabrielle

On that note, very intrigued to see if they will leave in all the incesty bits or just lean into the abandonment vibes 

Daniel has to clown on Lestat for this if they leave it in

Confirmation or Denial of 70s/80s devil’s minion (I just need to know if it happened or not!!)

Also if it did happen: I want some flashes to that era - setting up the night island of it all (just since I think that could be relevant going forward)

I think it makes sense plot and show production wise to have a little reference confirming it did or didn’t happen, but I doubt we’d see any of it if it did happen tbh. 

Great Conversion stuff just happening in the background 

Daniel Vampire phones Louis, and Louis the least curious vampire to ever exist genuinely tells him to just ignore it. Like that bitch is NOT going to help solve any mystery

Lestat telling the story of him fighting and killing a bunch of wolves as a human and Daniel just not believing him (because its genuinely wild)

Loumand Divorce Era

Lestat actually exploring the trauma of his turning (sexual assault)

Vampire Daniel being a vampire and doing vampire things!! 

The in universe reception to the book Interview with the vampire by Daniel Molloy 

Like do people believe it’s real? How has the impacted the great conversion stuff? 

Do other vamps know he is a vampire?? 

Do people think the popstar thing is an elaborate RPF/industry plant thing related to the book? 

I Gotta see some fake tweets about this please

[nalyra-dreaming]

re: the Loumand "tenderness" debate, imho the cast were very limited as to what they could say about s2 ahead of time, and Assad was right, there is a tenderness and vulnerability about them, it's just underpinned by a sense of menace & foreboding. I feel like we'll get more rounded discussions from the cast after the season has aired and they can talk about it more freely, but yeah, the tenderness is there and it's genuine, but it's only one facet of the overall picture. This is truly a much more interesting way of telling the story than just giving us a basic sentimental romance though! I know some Loumand fans are unhappy that the couple aren't being allowed to breathe by themselves, but imho the inclusion of dreamstat was ingenious in ep3, and injected some much-needed friction into their dynamic. This show is great at taking things from the book and giving them the dramatic twists they need in order to really engage a tv audience, without cheapening things or dumbing them down.

Oh yes.

And it seems the gag order has dropped away with the last interviews, which really put it quite plainly.

And I get why Loumand shippers might be disappointed, but the show never promised this as the great romance. And AMC did not either, not even in promotion.

On the contrary, as the posters indicated allll the way back then at SDCC 2023 - they are going dark. Gaslighting and tender prison dark.

They've never tried to pretend otherwise. Rolin Jones pointed out how that final scene of the last season was to interpret directly after in the episode insider. And pointed out Armand's influence, too.

So yes, Loumand is very different to Loustat - it's supposed to be.

But it's just as toxic. And Devil's Minion will be, too.

[brsb4hls]

I know iwtv sometimes looks like a regular queer hipster relationship drama, so it's easy to forget it is an actual horror show and the protagonists are all monsters who eat people.

But if you take that into account how can you see Armand as 'the antagonist' or 'the villain' here?

I'm not playing down Louis' background and the trauma of the trial, the monsters in this show still have feelings and the audience is supposed to feel empathy for them.

But why so much more for Louis? Why pit Louis and Armand against each other?

Yes, Armand was willing to let Louis die. But he didn't plan it. The coven pressured him into directing the trial (recently confirmed by Assad) ad he took the easiest route.

Then saw his chance to change course and he lied to Louis about it.

On it's own that seems absolutely horrible.

Well, so is trying to actually murder your partner, like Louis did (I mean that's what he's on trial for, among other things) and yet everyone is cooing over the Loustat relationship.

Their connection is a red thread throughout the books and they have an intriguing dynamic, but it's every bit as toxic as Loumand.

And yet those celebrating the toxic messy Loustat relationship (mainly because it's so messy) are questioning if Armand 'can ever come back from what he did.

And I wonder why that is.

Maybe show Armand is to passive and subby. (Like I wrote before, he is not a master manipulator sadly, he just goes with the flow and lies and omitts when the opportunity presents itself).

Or people don't feel empathy cause he's not as open and mostly wearing a mask of sorts.(if you miss Assads microexpressions that is, he's actually amazing at portraying emotions like that).

I truely don't know.

I still love the character and wished he was more 'aggressive' in the actual sense of the word, taking action instead of just going with things. He is extremely powerfull and hardly showed it.

And the Loumand relationship was miserable for both of them from the start.

Louis actually used it as a fuck you to Lestat. Like 'see this loser? Well, I rather fuck him than you so chew on that', very romantic indeed.

He hallucinated Lestat the entire relationship and only told Armand during the interview.

He fucked and killed 138 boys he pumped full of drugs first. He still hated Armand for his part in Claudia's death (Lestat also had a part in it, just a reminder) and also found him boring and suffocating.

Nothing about that is wholesome in anyway.

Both of them should have broken the thing off multiple times but they clung to it for different reasons.

That's a regular fucked up monster relationship where the monsters are horrible to each other.

And in that context I don't see a villain here.

Maybe we might get there if we explore Armand's torture chamber and experiments (or Lestat's side of the trial, an interview hints Armand might have had more involvement), which I would actually preferr over the passiveness we have now.

But at this point in the show I see no reason to hate Armand, just like I see no reason to hate Lestat or Louis.

(Hating Santiago is very valid tho for reasons).

[saintundying]

I’m sorry for jumping into your inbox with this but I feel like I’m about to start climbing the walls rewatching season 2.

I’m trying to stop myself from getting too much hope up for 70’s Devil’s minion. But like…. if it wasn’t a thing, they are soo toying with us (which hey, they might be 😂).

The “digging around in Daniel’s head” scene in 2x2 drives me insane. Daniel proposing to his wife in 1985, okay, let’s say there’s no earlier Devil’s minion, this is about how different a trajectory his life took in this version of the story compared to 1985 in the books.

But- BUT with the knowledge from the books this scene becomes insane!! Daniel, proposing to his wife, in 1985 and being turned down. Daniel proposing the same year he was turned in the books but isn’t turned in the show?! The camera lingers a moment on Armand while Louis asks about how Alice responded to Daniel’s proposal? THEN!!! then Daniel starts flashing to memories Armand fucking erased from his head!!!! (The proposal being turned down also helps drive me crazy, because of it was just about the different trajectory of his life, why doesn’t she say yes? Why is it instead a rejection that matches with how Daniel isn’t a vampire yet?)

1985 -> Daniel being turned down -> camera lingers on Armand -> memories of Armand, erased by Armand.

How is anyone meant to still have any sanity left after that??

Then they keep rubbing it in with stuff like cutting to Armand making a face after Daniel says “Yah” in 2x4. And I’m not even a hardcore Armand is Alice believer 😭😭, but I’m still standing here with my bloody conspiracy wall covered in red threads. I know there are other explanations (for example, Armand is just about to start an amazing face journey listening to Louis wax about his emotional-support-hallucination-ex-husband, so maybe he’s just not super keen about that) but there’s so much of it that if it’s not meant to mean something… someone in that writers room is doing an evil snicker.

omg never a bother - i love talking theories and devil's minion! i have no sanity left with them

GODD the way this show conflates the Dark Gift with marriage and how lestat turned louis on the alter and daniel proposing armand turn him so they'll be together and equals.......but yea lol, alice is clearly meant to stand out as odd. you are so right that placing that memory in 1985 is weird. they'd be well aware tvc fans would notice that. there's...a lot of weird questions that surround daniel, and by extension, armand. i am fascinated with why armand needed to hurt daniel with alice. he's the one who brings her up and he lets louis hurt him with her memory just enough to unsettle him before soothing his pain. that's armand's thing - i am the hand and the balm (i was literally bothering oldbutchdaniel today about armand/amadeo/daniel and how their dynamic is just reynold/alma and control and care ughh armand you need to settle down!!!) anyway, yea past devil's minion happened to me, but alice is a very real person (i think daniel left armand for her or some mix of that). 70s dm is the only logical reasoning for the show to establish armand would never turn someone only to turn someone a day lateri. armand loves daniel and cant bear him leaving/dying. the end!

also tbh i think the timeline for past dm makes way more sense than i think people believe but you have to subscribe to loumandaniel+dubai is loumand trinity gate era in order to see the vision lol

[pynkhues]

I feel like this show is too smart for most of it's audience. The fact that people take Claudia's remark meant to hurt and manipulate Louis as a fact of his personality when the show has been playing out Louis's struggle with his internalised homophobia, misogyny and toxic masculinity all this time. I swear to God, I stumble upon gender essebtialist, homophobic posts in this fandom every day, especially when it comes to Louis's relationships. The reductive discussions about who is top/bottom or dom/sub in his sexual relationships are truly disgusting to me. Because they are clearly "who is the man, who is the woman" discussions cloaked into sex talk. Sorry for the rant, I am triggered today too. I actually want opinion from you about the reasons for Loumand's dom/sub dynamic, everyone always talks about how it's because of Armand's trauma but I actually think it happened because of Louis's internalised homophobia, misogyny and toxic masculinity combined with trauma. I think he's not a person that actually needs or wants to be dom permanently. I think he convinced himself that this is who he is because it allows him to tell himself he's a real man even if he's gay. I'm rambling too much, I'm sorry!🙈

Ah, anon! Please don't apologise, and I'm sorry it's taken me a couple of days to reply after my own annoyed rambling, haha. It's just been a busy week, and it's often quicker and easier to send a reply to asks that, well, ask a bit less (and please, that's not a criticism, I love longer, more provocative asks, and I have a lot more in my inbox I want to get to!).

I don't know if I think the show is too smart for people. I think everyone and anyone can and does have the capacity to engage in a show like this - it's not that clever or pretentious - but I do think the current state of fandom and social media means that a concept gets floated and people get swept up in it.

We're living in an increaingly disconnected society and people seek community through things like fandom and so it becomes natural to lean in, to not question, to consume media as a part of something as opposed to as an individual. I think it's too easy to become a BNF in that sense (I know, I've been one previously, and while I love having chill convos with you guys and writing fic, I don't want to be like - - a known entity in this fandom, haha), especially if you know how to write an argument, and that the result of that is a blog / user becomes a meeting point for fans who are just hungry for engagement and the more-more-more pipeline that's a byproduct of the era we live in.

It's the same across the board, right? Whether you're arguing Louis' 'woman-coded' on tumblr, or being dogmatic about an interpretation of - - I don't know, a TSwift song, i think it all comes from the same place, and I don't think intelligence plays as much of a role as perhaps social skills and personal investment in the actual source material. Is it the art that matters to you, or the community/fandom? Because that's going to motivate your engagement in very different ways.

In regards to your actual question though:

I talked about it a bit in this post, but I think Louis stepping into that role with Armand was hugely about his own issues of identity at that point in the story. Claudia asking him who he was without her or Lestat was basically the set-up for Louis' arc across the season, and Louis tried and failed to do something on his own which left him searching for something familiar - "running things".

I think the d/s dynamic with Armand though worked two-fold - it positioned Louis closer to power, made him feel he had a purpose in guiding Armand through the theatre drama, but I also think it probably helped him to regain a sense of romantic control. We tend to focus a lot on Lestat's abuse of Louis as being what wrenched Louis' grip on himself away, but the reality is that was just a part of that. The point is that Louis and Lestat never feel clear-headed when they're around each other, they're never rational, even when they're at their most loving, which Louis knows because he's hearing and feeling it through Dreamstat.

That dynamic in the relationship with Armand is, to me, about a lot of things, but a huge part of that is just about Louis feeling like he's in control of both the romantic dynamic and, I'd argue, himself again. And I agree, I don't think Louis wants to be a dom permanently by any stretch of the imagination, but I think he understood Armand, at least that part of him, and saw a way they could be symbiotic. Which they were for a chapter! They just lasted probably 70 years longer than they should have, haha.

[akajustmerry]

I shouldn't even be surprised, because there were times I really just wanted to just see how Louis and Armand interacting one on one in Paris from the beginning... and it's like no, they HAD to shove in Dreamstat (this was partially because AMC executives were afraid to have less Lestat this season) but god, why did he need to be there during the museum scene?

This is partially why people want to insist that Louis and Armand never loved one another or that they were drawn to each other only because of Lestat. That their entire relationship was just about spiting Lestat when even Jacob said this was not the case and we know it isn't. Like in no way am I insisting this was a healthy and perfect couple, but god forbid we see a complex, interesting dynamic between two MOC without needing to make it about the white character like you'll all get plenty of him in s3 anyways. 🙄

exactly!!!! God forbid louis has a relationship that doesn't center lestat in some way, spite or otherwise. the very same people who repost gifs of louis and lestat having sex when Louis ADMITS he wasn't fully conscious because lestat was drinking him or whatever. like people repost those gifs like "omg me and who" with no consideration of how dubious it is. BUT louis and armand do a little consensual sub/dom role play or whatever and SUDDENLY those same fans have so much to say about toxic sex!!! it's so obvious they hold loumand to a different standard because they're both MOC and, as you said, the writing does too. Why is wanting Claudia dead forgiveable for lestat but not armand for example?? Make it make sense!

[enigmaticdiary]

and so i have been thinking thoughts...

elicited from the new trailer. copy and pasted from my discord cause i do all my thinkin there n_n;;

claudia + louis

when i think back to the book and the movie claudia was obviously an extremely important turning point in louis' life but it never felt like she was... the center of it you know? despite the fact that she was that glue that kept louis tethered to anything human in him.

but the book felt like he was just telling his story to be a. Sad pathetic man thing for the sake of it. cause he had no purpose to exist alone. to exist without claudia or lestat (or armand but their dynamic is. different and dicier) but after claudia is killed something about her presence and the years she spent with louis while alive felt... shrugged off in a way? and its likely because she didn't really have much of an identity outside of him and lestat which is understandable because she was significantly more vulnerable in the book than in the show, so she lacked that autonomy to have that choice to exist outside of them.

and when madeleine was brought into the picture for her to get that autonomy it was unfortunately already too late...

~~[mild separation of thoughts because i left to take a shower]~~

theres a few things i want to mention. just thoughts in my head. claudia dies fighting HARD for her autonomy as a person and a vampire. in comparison to louis who in all honesty has (DEBATABLY) lived without a shred of having his own autonomy. with lestat, lestats love (as claudia very smartly puts it) keeps him in a box. louis is financially dependent on him as a black man in the jim crow era once he loses the azalea, hes cut off from his family, he has NO ONE.

the brief time of just him and claudia is a good moment in time for both of them , trying to discover vampiric history together(tho in the show it looks like before they get to paris its gonna be absolute dogshit in comparison to the book), but in louis' case i feel like its guided by guilt and some form of obligation, because if he didnt go with claudia–who was already set to do this traveling alone before lestat dragged her back–where WOULD he have gone? stayed in new orleans with lestat in the dump just waiting to crawl out? i think he would sooner kill himself if he was left alone like that.

with armand…………… loumand is definitely better than loustat in extremely complex ways that i cant put into words right now but simultaneously even worse because of HOW armand preys on louis. there is absolutely love between them and i wont deny it but armand is so INSANELY dependent on the love of others to give meaning to his existence that he leverages louis' weaknesses and frailities to ensure that they will spend an eternity together. like he was plotting from the second he met louis and claudia. he kills claudia and madeleine, which then makes louis kill all the other vampires of the coven, so that there is no one left, NO ONE for louis to be able to turn to for solace.

i think that him remembering what actually happened to him up until the present is so important to him because he'll finally be able to realize that he hasnt been allowed to properly exist for himself the entire duration of him being a vampire. and maybe he can decide what he wants to do, for himself.

devil's minion... (in the present)

[these thoughts are referring to a tweet that wonders if armand is going to end up alone in the end. note: i am not versed in devil's minion lore. i'm getting there but as of this post i have not reached it]

saw this [the tweet] and audibly exclaimed GOOD

i love armand but the guy is genuinely evil and has wronged every single character hes come across including lestat which i find is hard to do

I know ppl are excited for armandaniel and devils minion but Im not..going to lie ive been REALLY skeptical of it and how it would be explored in the context of the show without severely wronging louis and doing him EXTREMELY dirty.

people are allowed to like it in the bubble of the books but theres a really big shift in dynamic for the show in the fact that ... armand has definitely done... Something to daniel and louis, of what i cant say. but with the way that things are going, an ending in which daniel sides with armand after finding out exactly what armand did to louis and claudia in paris does NOT sit well with me?

and i love loumand but I am so uneasy about the inevitable breakup in regards to whats gonna happen AFTER it. I feel like daniel now is wise enough to not chase after a guy who is diabolically selfish and broken and leave louis behind to live out the vampire fantasy dreams of his youth. and in the trailer too im getting. Loudaniel vibes in terms of reconciling their past with the previous interview. And Heres my theory for Devils minion BUT ITS LOUDANIEL INSTEAD OF ARMANDANIEL (1/689)

[ca-suffit]

I can’t say this without anon on, but I kinda feel like the loumand vs devil’s minion ship war is kinda stupid?

On the one hand we have loumand, which I find a fascinating dynamic but it’s obviously a romantically unfulfilling one for both parties involved. On the other hand, we have dm, which didn’t even happen in the show yet and will probably be very different from the book version. At this point everything is a weird fan projection, which will end in tears. The common denominator is Armand, a character with an extremely tragic backstory and a complete inability to understand his own feelings or reflect on his actions. (I hope Claudia haunts him in the next season)

In the show I’m eating it all up as a narrative, but in the fandom I’m just so tired.

My personal wish would be for the show to not progress devil’s minion too much and instead focus on Armand. I don’t think the show would get enough season for one to focus on Armand and I think Assad is too talented not to do something phenomenal with the material. (I also watched May December last night)

Sorry for the chaotic ask, love your work here 🪻

I think all the shipping wars are stupid tbh, but it's also usually all that fandoms focus on bcuz it's the easiest way to stir up drama and also hide racism within. I try to not come across like I'm promoting shipping wars bcuz I never am, but sometimes it's too tiring to put the same exclaimer before every ask I answer (that's not coming for u for this ask btw, only a general comment).

[cuntylouis]

is lesmand gonna be a full on love story? i haven’t seen the video but poor nicki,and poor jacob,i mean… also rolin apparently said the majority of changes made were to give louis more gasoline so we can see louis over and over again

Depends on what you mean by love story, i don't think it's going to be like a traditional romance or anything like loustat but i think there is/was genuine feelings and attraction between Lestat and Armand and their relationsip is going to be important for s3 and beyond that. It's actually not very different from the books where Armand at one point even says he's loved Lestat more than anyone and Lestat is shown to genuinely care for Armand even though Armand doesn't really believe it. Like people often joke about the one-sidedness of lesmand but i think it's always been a crucial part of their dynamic that Lestat feels attracted to Armand too even though he's kind of weirded out by him.

In the show i think they probably had a sexual relationship as Armand tells and Armand/Lestat/Nicki dynamic could be described as love triangle, but it also probably didn't happen exactly as Armand describes, and i don't think Lestat considers Armand his great love like he considers Louis and Nicki to be. I'm completely certain Louis will always remain as the most important person for Lestat and who he sees as the love of his eternal life. Because i'm a loustat, loumand and lesmand enjoyer at the same time i'd love if they ended the series as a trio (there's kind of basis for that in the books already) but i think realistically the show loustat are too jealous and catholic to survive anything other than traditional monogamy. I think they're going to flat out delete most of Lestat's 205832 love interests from the books and shuffle the story so that Louis can fill most of those roles and stay as active participant in the story

[nalyra-dreaming]

I'm sorry but I'm confused by people believing jacob must have changed his mind about loumand.

I don't know about Jacob's opinion but writers were making it this or that. It can't be both. I guess we'll see later what exactly were writer's intentions about this relationship. But while we can't be 100% sure yet jacob definitely knew exactly complete story. Both things were recorded after filming was finished, he knew all details. He knew both times when said "rebound" And "not rebound" which one it is from Louis' pov. Therefore at some point he... Lied. (This is NOT an attack on jacob!).

Now let's think logically: he knew bts insiders will be released after episodes. In "not rebound" interview there was no spoilers for things we saw, there were not details, he described vibes of loumand and that's it, which meant he knew it'll be released before this episode. At the end of the day, if he said something false, it would've be cut or he would've re-record once again, it's not live and I'm sure they have people that oversee this stuff.

It's literally the same how before ep1 jacob vaguely said loumand is tender and later we got insight how relationship going darker.

Or how before we were sure dreamstat will only haunt Louis menacingly blaming for his death but we also got unique dynamic where he is being Louis' support.

Some things you can't just say because it'll be spoiler. If jacob outright said "it's rebound" we would not take ep1-3 seriously. But he didn't say it and we had Daniel calling them "rebound" And Louis getting angry at it, and it was interesting because we could not be sure who was right! Is that Daniel just being dismissive of them or is it Louis being delusional? There was intrugue!

Exactly.

It is very clear to me that a "gag order" has dropped away.

Prior to seasons there are always things that the actors do not say, and that they explain differently afterwards.

And I mean - would we really want it any different way? Would we want them to explain it to us beforehand?

No. Because we should "let the tale seduce us".

And though they didn't go and ship bait us, going out and destroying all theories before they have aired cannot be their intention either?!

[blueiight]

idk if you remember this but a little while back there was a group of anons or just one dedicated troll who was going to popular blogs saying loumand was a healthier dynamic basically trying to make loumand girlies look unhinged i think the same thing is happening now to the pillow princess louis squad because i've seen some very questionable asks that look like they're trying to stir the pot

yea i had that AxL troll in my inbox too lmaoooo . its like 4 different ppl linking me to random posts someone linked me to a thinkpiece on hannibal from 2017 tryna relate the general line of thought there to w/e show iwtv fans is recycling and fussing about. like i watched a season& a half of hannibal w/ my sister years ago& it certainly didnt stick in my memory lol. im not the shaderoom of cockwatching guys im just yani blueiight👍🏾take it up w anne rolin nem idk what else to say. im only observing general trends in how fans rl perception/bias toward black people impacts their perception and inability to fully analyze the story arcs of fictional black charas. whether its not recognizing the character louis canonly has a preferred relationship dynamic, whether its treating louis like hes satan incarnate smearing ur white martyr, whether its apologetics for louis’s terrible actions & expecting louis and claudia to get along perfectly well in s2 on some wayans bros shit, n whatever stupid shit ppl think. s1 questions what it even means to tell a story. what is in the reliability of Word, whos words we value, what perspectives we hold as Truth, the filtering of a black male vampire’s eternal life thru his own lens, before, during, and all the while it falls into the lens of the white male interviewer, and the audience who watches the construction of the story [what louis tells daniel that we see, what louis chooses not to tell daniel that we see, v. what we dont see that louis shows neither us or dan]. falling into petty stan wars throwing up bullshit cuz u to scared to @ somebody so u use a blogger’s askbox to instigate is a waste of time & quite frankly, a disservice to a marvelous adaptation.

[camellia-thea]

what aspects of the armand/daniel relationship do you find particularly compelling? what are your hopes for how their relationship is portrayed in season 3?

so. um. i have had to split this ask because i wrote an essay and i straight up did not talk about the show. so that will be posted separately and you can have a proper answer to this. here is the other post

take two!

obvious preface, but i love the relationship in the book. i think it discusses the inherent power dynamics between vampires and mortals really well, and i love how it characterises both daniel and armand, as the two -- especially daniel -- are not really dug into in the previous novels. daniel is quite literally a narrative frame, and is unnamed until the third book.

i went into the iwtv show wanting devil's minion, and the pieces we've been given so far (i am looking especially at s2e5) are amazing. i definitely think that had i not been familiar with the books beforehand i would probably be less into devil's minion conceptually and more on the side of loumand, but knowing what i do, i can't help but desperately want there to be more.

i think armand and daniel work for one another. i've talked a little about it in the other post. i think old maniel has similar qualities, though they've changed as he's aged. he's a little more cynical now, a little less naive. but he still values the world around him, even if individual life is a less important to him now than it was then.

this is also in the other post, but i think it's relevant; i think daniel gives armand the potential to be more than who he was made to be, the roles he was put into. the muse, the protégé, the cult leader, the coven member, he lingers in his own victimhood, and i think it’s a very interesting thing. the nursemaid for louis, daniel's presence in dubai allows him to break from that, and daniel's presence in san fransisco back then did something similar, but... different. san fransisco was armand desperately searching for something to catch louis' attention once again, and i think it's fascinating (ha). then he slips into his gentleman death form, which is another little book reference i adore.

they also... match each other's freak, as it were.

i'd love for s3 to play with the chase era of devil's minion, especially if they make 70s dm canon. having armand chase daniel across the world in the 70s and then daniel chase armand? it'd be so good.

i'd also love to see daniel's transformation, because i don't think louis is necessarily right about daniel being turned out of spite.

i think that playing with armand not being able to witness daniel's mortality, despite being willing to let daniel die in the past, is something that would be so good to play with.

there are also a couple of book conversations that i'd love to see translated into the show. like the telephone scene (for the comedy), but also the sections in the villa of mysteries, and some of the conversation that take place around daniel's transformation too.

i have one final addition; night island. please.

however i am uncertain of whether s3 is going to follow the vampire lestat exclusively or merge with qotd. and obviously very very very early days, s3 has only been official for a few weeks at this point, but i think the frame will dictate what i want to see and what i think will happen.

i think s3 will probably have daniel interviewing lestat in some capacity, because i don't think they can really set daniel aside in the way he is in the books (or at least, i hope so? this might be wishful thinking on my part!). having daniel learn about armand from lestat's perspective is something that i think would be really interesting. especially since lestat knows marius, which will be fascinating.

[nalyra-dreaming]

I don't think Louis and Armand's dynamic is kinky either. I guess on paper it would seem that way, but then we hear their voice tone, see their facial expressions and it's never completely passionate, flirty, sensual or delicate either. Sometimes it's not at all. The "I want you more than anything in the world" feels somewhat sweet from Armand's part, but Louis doesn't seem into that. The "are you asking or making me?" scene is just weird. I believe Louis is trying to feel tough and in control again after everything that happened with Lestat, I also think there's some level of dissociation and/or not wanting to fully let Armand in and be vulnerable with him. And I don't blame him, I get where he is coming from. Not to mention how (black) boys are taught by the world to be cold, an Alpha macho man and all that. I guess there might also be some kind of sixth sense in him that knows Armand specifically can't be trusted, even if he's consciousness hasn't fully caught up yet. Like, how sometimes we feel uncomfortable with people/situations and can't figure out why, and then something happens and you realize you instinctively noticed the danger even before your mind was aware, you know? Brain and instinct are funny and who knows how they work when you're a vampire lol. On Armand's side, at least from Assad's acting and interviews I've seen, I get the feeling the sexual abuse he endured is so profound that made him live his life in a dysfunctional way? He can love and be loved, but I don't believe he knows how give and receive it. So he brings back that kind of vocabulary and roles, because it's the reference he has? I know Armand is a hell of manipulator, but I think on those moments he isn't weaponizing it or anything, I just see being vulnerable and working on automatic. And that's not to say Louis is taking advantage of it either, but, like, they're a product of their time, experiences, it's not like vampires have the luxury of therapy and this is just a dysfunctional dynamic of two people with different traumas that never fully healed and don't know how to help each other and their relationship with those stuff (not to mention the manipulation and all their other problems and imminent divorce et all). Not a great comparison, but feels like a parent that knows when their child needs therapy for whatever reason and refuses because they're like "my child is perfect and happy and this is just an inconvenience that will be over soon". Like, even if there wasn't all that other stuff going on, they don't know what the other and that relationship needs. They probably don't even know what they need as individuals. I guess the closest to a D/S dynamic where both people enjoyed was 1x06.

Possibly (and the ask was sent^^).

I think it is a very complicated beast, and instead of trying to formulate it on my own, let me redirect you here, where it was put quite precisely, imho:

Louis was distrustful of Armand, his "inner Lestat" showed that quite plainly. And as such I think the OP of the post hit the nail on the head, neither Louis nor Armand could get what they wanted from the other, and it then shifted into this messy echo of what it could - and maybe should - have been.